Episode 74: Transcript

You are listening to episode 74 of the Path to Motherhood podcast.

Welcome to the Path to Motherhood podcast.

I'm your host and fertility life coach, Sarah Brandell.

Join us each week as we walk through navigating your trying to conceive journey.

My mission is to share the skills of managing your mind, processing emotions and living a full life to create a more authentic path to motherhood.

Hello, hello, and welcome back to the Path to Motherhood podcast.

I'm your host, Sarah, and I'm super excited that today we actually have a guest on the podcast.

Today is an interview with Bridget, who is the owner and counselor of Mindful Balanced Counseling and Wellness, which is actually based here in Dayton, Ohio, near me.

She Bridget Petri is a licensed professional clinical counselor that has experience from a bachelor's degree in psychology, a master's degree in clinical mental health counseling, and she has experience having worked in the hospital, splitting time between adult and teen psychiatric units, and then growing her experience outpatient and school-based settings, working with adults and teens.

And her approach with clients is very much this person-centered approach from a holistic perspective where she uses her evidence-based practices of therapy and counseling and alternative approaches to help her clients explore deeper into the complex nature of their problems and help them recognize negative patterns and thought processes.

So that is her background.

I will tag her in the show notes so that you can follow her on Instagram.

She really is amazing.

She is such a wealth of knowledge on this episode of talking through how to weave more self-love into your life.

And it's not the standard, stereotypical, go take a bath and get your nails done, but the real stuff, right.

Like the real things of how we show up best for ourselves and how to be realistic in that process.

So I know you guys will love this episode without further ado.

Here is my interview with Bridget Petrie.

Hello, hello, and welcome to the Paths Motherhood podcast.

I have Bridget with me, and I am super excited to be talking with her.

I'm going to go ahead and let you introduce yourself.

Yeah.

So my name is Bridget Petrie.

I'm a licensed professional clinical counselor.

I have my own business.

It's called Mindful Balance Counseling, but I am located inside the well in Kettering.

So like the well for women's wellness, the collaborative of a bunch of different practitioners who's focuses on women's wellness.

And I primarily see women ages 16 to 40 kind of give or take working on a lot of anxiety, stress, self-esteem stuff, perfectionistic tendencies, setting boundaries.

So kind of a mix, but that's like my niche.

I niche, I would say is like the 16 to 40 kind of young adult women.

Yeah, I that's one of my favorite things about you is that like, just, I don't know, giving that group of women a big hug, right.

No matter what they're going through, just to be able to support them through whatever they're going through.

I think it's an awesome focus to be focused on that group of women.

Yeah, especially, you know, I feel like, I mean, later teens, early college age, I feel like that's such a transformative time.

I mean, there's so many transformative times within that time period, but just kind of like identifying who you are, who you are outside of your family, what you want to do with your life.

Like I just feel like it's such a experimental and like exploratory time and also a very confusing and like you don't always know what you're doing.

So I love working with women in that age, like just kind of like learning more about themselves.

And then the hope is like to feel empowered in who they are eventually or you know, just kind of working to get there.

- Absolutely, absolutely.

So I'm super excited to have you on because I reached out and said, you know, I was gonna have this month where I was focusing on kind of topics about self-love and how that shows up through a fertility journey, whatever someone's fertility journey is.

And we've been doing that over the last couple of weeks, but I'm excited to get your perspective from a couple of ways.

One is, you know, how that's shown up for you, right.

Like creating self-love for you in your day-to-day life and how you see that show up as you're working with clients.

And yeah, so I guess to get started, I would ask you, in your words, how do you see self love showing up.

Like what is that to you.

'Cause I feel like it's different to everybody.

- Yeah, I think for me personally, like self love is, I mean, valuing myself, prioritizing myself, prioritizing my needs, respecting my needs when maybe they aren't convenient, when there's like so much I need to be doing and my body's telling me that's not what needs to be happening, respecting and accepting, I need to rest, or I need to maybe take a day off from work, or maybe I need to schedule some clients, so I'm going in a little bit later, just kind of respecting and accepting where my body's at.

I feel like that is a way of self-love, really listening to it, and just genuinely valuing myself, I think that would be kind of my like, I guess version of what I feel like self-love is.

Yeah, I like that.

And you're reaffirming my decision today that between client calls and then recording this podcast, I had a break and I'm like, I'm going to just lay down.

Like I'm not going to sleep.

I'm just going to lay down and rest.

And that feels like the right thing to do.

Um, I could be getting a bunch done, but I'm not going to do that today.

So perfect timing to hear that reminder.

So I know one of the things we were going to talk about is just kind of maybe what it's been like for you, like your journey yourself kind of coming to terms with how to create self-love.

You know, maybe was there an issue where you felt like there was a time where you weren't doing that and you had to correct it or just like how it's shown up for you in your journey with yourself.

Yeah, so I feel like, you know, right out of, I mean, high school, I feel like it's is always challenging for any girl.

And then into college, I feel like I was very focused on, like my self-work was very ingrained in achievement.

Like how well was I doing at school.

How well am I doing in college.

What are my grades.

Getting my masters in grad school, how was I doing in that.

How was I doing in my internship.

How was I doing, getting my first job.

I feel like it was constantly like, I had to be doing something.

How well was I doing it.

and my words was tied into it.

And then if something along the, within that didn't go well, it was like, what's wrong with me.

Or who am I without this.

Or just like feeling terrible about yourself in general.

So I feel like that was, you know, how I felt probably like, you know, 18 to early 20s was just like very invested in what I could do and what I could produce and how much I was achieving.

And like it was not sustainable.

Like my body could not keep doing that.

My mental health was impacted.

I was like overly anxious.

I was overwhelmed.

I was like not sleeping well.

And I got to a point where like, I just couldn't maintain it.

And so I personally went to therapy myself and had to work through like the guilt and shame and then just kind of accepting who I was and that maybe I functioned in different ways than other people, that maybe I was more sensitive.

Maybe I couldn't see as many clients as other people did.

Maybe I needed a job with more flexibility.

So I feel like it was quite a process, but getting to a point of accepting what my limitations were and being OK if they were different limitations than other people.

And the other people could work 40, 50, 60 hours a week and still function.

They probably aren't actually-- I was going to say, there's probably a lot of them that are actually struggling, they're just good at hiding it.

- Yeah, they're just really good at hiding it, but like to, you know, externally, that's what it looks like.

So trying to compare to that.

And so I feel like I did a lot of personal work, just like within my own therapy and stuff.

I feel like in terms of self love and just accepting who I am and what I need, and it's okay to meet those needs, and it's okay if they're different from other people.

I also feel like a lot is wrapped up in appearance, like at that age, you know, I feel like, obviously like I'm trying, just trying to date with trying to meet like someone I wanted to spend my life with.

I feel like a lot of my work was tied up into my appearance as well, were people attracted to me.

Did I get compliments.

Did I get likes on posts.

And that was something I really had to work through too is like not putting my value in like how other people viewed my appearance.

And I would say that's, I mean, none of these are perfect.

like these are still works in progress for sure.

But I definitely feel like that I'm in a much better place as far as that.

But yeah, I feel like those are definitely challenges and they still kind of rear up every now and again and they probably will for the rest of my life.

Like just as a woman, I think that's just something we're gonna deal with.

But I mean, I definitely think therapy was effective for me and just like reframing my mindset around it like this mindset that we've all been conditioned around just having to reframe that, which takes a lot of work, but I feel like it's definitely like doable.

Yeah, I'm just thinking about how a common trend, a common topic that we talk about, you know, I would talk about with clients, talk about on here with people, is that it's a very common thing for women to like do what you're talking about, beyond the achievement wheel.

And like if I work harder, then I get success.

If I work harder, if I put in the work, I will get what I want.

I'll get the degree, the job, the promotion, the whatever.

And then all of a sudden they like get to the infertility space and you can work as hard as you want and you don't have control over the outcome.

And that can be super jarring to like be hit by that wall.

And so I think a lot of women probably can relate to what you're talking about with that productivity need, right.

Like if I just been productive enough, it's all gonna be good enough.

- Yeah, yeah, I feel like that is insightful, like how that can correlate with the infertility.

And I think even just like anytime anything feels out of our control and our body, if we're so used to this, like our worth is in our achievement, like that can be devastating when it doesn't happen in the way we envision and we can't work harder or do more, do X-File, like it doesn't yield the results that we're used to.

- If anything, it might hamper our results, right.

- Yeah, exactly.

It's almost like you have to do the opposite.

So yeah, I feel like it is challenging when you get to that point and having to like completely reframe your mindset.

- And I like that, you know, that's step one that you're talking about is it's like, it's not about going and doing anything.

It really is about like, let me take a look at like, how I'm thinking about this, my mindset about this, is it realistic that, how I'm thinking about this right now.

- Yeah.

Yeah, like does this, does this make sense.

Is this working for me now.

And like the reality is, I mean, in some ways it probably has worked, but I feel like it's probably also been a detriment at some point.

And I think just that idea of like, is this sustainable or not, or is it sustainable.

and for also me to like be content or at peace with my life, like probably not.

- And it's such a reminder of how a lot of times all of our strengths are also our weaknesses, right.

Like they got us our success with our degrees or our careers or whatever, but there are also the things that cause us a lot of drama.

- Yeah, yeah, like the high achieving, the perfectionist tendencies, the like not ever needing help, not asking for help, like all of those things lead to us feeling burnt out, lead to us feeling detached from ourselves.

And so, yeah, I think that, again, that can be hard to kind of shift away from that.

- So as you said, like it's not like you magically change your mindset and the work is done and you're fixed, right.

It's an ongoing thing.

But as you were working on it and as you were like trying to make changes to your mindset about this topic, what were some of the things that you think and your day to day changed because of that.

- As far as what has helped or what in my day looks different because of it.

- Either, either.

- Okay, yeah, so I feel like, I mean, obviously, I mentioned therapy, I'm a therapist on a big proponent of that, coaching any type of, I think it's just good to have an outside perspective and one that's not in bias because they're gonna pick up on stuff that we're not picking up on or family or friends aren't.

So I think that's helpful.

I mean, obviously I've read so many books and listen to podcasts, like any type of like just educating yourself.

But also I feel like, I mean, really like being out in nature, like having some kind of meditation practice, like anything to connect back to yourself and there not need to be anything happening.

It doesn't have to be productive.

There's not an end goal other than just like connecting with yourself.

like I think that helps a lot in terms of like getting them to the mindset of like just kind of accepting Who I am what I need in terms of self-appearance I feel like a big thing that's helped for me is like just physical movement and The past year I got I just kind of got to a point where I was like I just have to do something different Like I don't feel good about myself.

I have to do something different.

I've never been like an active person I've never really liked working out and I just like made myself like I don't even know how to describe it other than I just was like you're going and you're doing it and then I created the habit and it wasn't with the goal of like looking better or losing weight.

It was truly just to like feel better like physically in my body and then it honestly helped my self-esteem so much and not because I looked if I don't think I've lost any weight like I mean I can tell a difference in terms of like, I feel more tone, but like the big thing was feeling stronger, like just this, it feels empowering to like see a difference in like strength or the capabilities of your body without it being attached to appearance.

Like I felt so empowered that I like could lift more weights or like walk longer, run like it was just empowering to see that like, I worked hard and I could do this and that built confidence outside of what I looked like.

So I So I feel like that was a practice in helping me love myself and kind of detaching a little bit of the fixation on appearance because I felt good and it wasn't because of what I looked like.

So in terms of like, those are helpful things.

And then as far as like day to day, those are things that I try to do.

I try to work out, I don't wanna walk or I try to keep up with the meditation practice.

I think those are important.

I also try to be flexible too with that because they think we get in this idea of like, I mean, anytime it's like, the new year we're thinking resolutions and we're like, okay, I'm gonna like, exercise every day or I'm gonna exercise five times a week.

And it's like, sometimes an unrealistic goal, it doesn't work for our schedule.

And then we can't keep up with it.

And then we just feel like a failure.

And so I feel like having flexible goals, like, okay, I'm gonna like introduce one thing I'm gonna introduce it.

I just wanna do this one or two times a week and then like building on that.

But I feel like if we go in, yeah, like if I go in and I'm like, I'm gonna work out five times a week or something and that just doesn't make sense or it's something you've never done, you're probably not gonna keep up with it and you're gonna feel terrible about yourself when you don't.

So I think that's the big thing too is like flexible goals when you're starting to try to reframe some of this stuff.

- Yeah, yeah, I like that.

I'm always talking about like, as we're like preparing for your future you of who you wanna be like next month, next year, right.

Like let's be realistic about her.

Like she's still gonna have tough days.

She's still gonna have days where she's like, I'm sleepy and I'm not feeling like doing it.

Like that's not gonna disappear magically.

So like let's be, I use the word flexible, I use the word realistic and like give space for that.

Not every day has to be this perfect.

I meditated, I did my three hour morning routine, right.

Yeah, yeah, like it's just, it's not gonna look like that.

Again, that's like not sustainable.

I also think it's fluctuates too based off like seasons because they feel like winter is a very like quiet reflective.

So if you're trying to make yourself be super active and energetic and it just doesn't align with like what the season is, like that's probably not gonna be super helpful either.

So I think like respecting that too, like where is it at seasonally.

what makes the most sense to introduce, then if I need more sleep, I feel like making myself get up at five in the winter when I probably need more sleep, like that's not setting myself up for success.

So like I think that's also something to consider too, is like what makes the most sense for the time that I'm in and am I setting a goal that's just like not realistic.

- Yes, yes.

I talk about that often with like, It's easy to be like, okay, I need to eat this specific diet.

I need to move this exact way.

I need to be like doing this perfect love your body.

I'm fertile meditation.

And like you're doing all these steps in prep for like your next cycle or your whatever.

And then it's turning into like those things that are supposed to be good for you or actually just stressing you out more.

And they're probably not even being very helpful.

- Yeah, at that point, like you're so stressed out.

Like those things probably aren't doing much actually be beneficial.

Right.

Uh-huh.

Absolutely.

So that's what I always say.

Like if it's feeling stressful, that's probably not a good sign.

Like, it's not feel that way when you're doing it.

Yeah.

If you're stressed out by the routine or you're like rushing to have to get it done or it feels like a chore, you know, some things are going to be harder.

But if it's like, yeah, if it's causing you to feel stressed about it, like it isn't, that's not the purpose.

So you kind of alluded to this a little bit and you can share.

from your own experience or from experience working with clients, with patients.

I talk a lot about how when we go through setbacks, when we go through failed cycles, losses, whatever, it's really common for women to become almost like what I call disconnected from their body, where they talk about their body as if it's like over here, this broken thing that's It's not working for me that keeps failing me that I can't stand and I'm over here fighting against it.

And we're always talking about how can we come back together.

I shared for me the main thing that helped me do that was honestly through very slow Zen yoga.

And I swear week after week people will be like, are you gonna go to any of the other classes.

Are you gonna go to the hot, I'm like, no, just Zen yoga.

Like I don't need any of the other stuff.

But I just wanted to hear from your perspective of people who have, there's a million reasons we can get disconnected from our body, not just infertility, but like how have you seen people be able to reconnect to that.

- Yeah, so I think, yeah, I think a lot of times it's like a protection skill.

Like we wanna protect ourselves from this assumed thing that's harming us in a sense.

And so we do become disconnected and dissociating from it.

And yeah, I feel like with clients, that's something we talk about all the time, is like how to get back into your body.

So like any type of grounding exercises, like I mean, you can just go on like insight timer or you know, YouTube or whatever and just look up grounding exercises and there's gonna be some kind of meditation.

If you've never done it, I would suggest like a, you know, five minute, you don't have to do like an hour long for it to be effective, but you know, start short and sweet.

And I feel like anything like somatic, anything getting in touch with your body, like physical movement, even if it's like going to get a massage or like some type of like energy healing or you know, whether it's something you're doing solo or you go and have a practitioner do Um, I mean being in nature is a huge thing like just being outside and your bare feet is good Yeah, any type of ways just to like connect breathing into your body like just feeling connected to your body I also think like a big suggestion is always affirmations And I've had clients where they like go to do affirmations and they're like it's almost comical like I don't think these things so saying them to myself feels ridiculous.

Like if you don't think you're beautiful and you're staring at yourself in the mirror and saying I'm beautiful and beautiful like it doesn't hit like it doesn't have the effect that you need it to.

So I think.

Yeah, like you trying to figure out like what is an affirmation that actually maybe right now I don't feel it but I feel like I could like I can get on board with it like picking out those affirmations.

out those affirmations or mantras that you like could get on board with that could be helpful and yeah whether it's like a mantra that you repeat while you're meditating or just keeping in mind while you're like on a walk or you have it in your phone, you know something along those lines I think is helpful by making sure it is realistic and it's not so far out of the realm of how you actually feel but it's actually going to be useful And then once you actually feel that, you can bump it up to something maybe a little bit more outside of your comfort zone, but I think initially like it's just not effective unless you actually could get on board with it.

And I think that's where people are like these are ridiculous.

Yeah.

Um, when you were talking about your experience with working out and getting strength, it had me thinking about how even like for example in I have this meditation series for the two week wait, where one of the days we talk about like, let's just review all the amazing things that like my body does do right, right.

- Yeah.

- It wakes up every day, it's breathing for me, it's taking care of me.

For a lot of us, we're able to walk around on our feet, right.

Like there's so many things our body does, but where it's really easy to be only focused on like, my reproductive system is not working properly and only think about that.

So just remembering that there's, your body's a busy thing, man.

It's doing a lot for you.

- It's doing other things too.

Yeah.

I feel like it is helpful to focus on the functions it does do, especially if you are in a space of really disliking or even hating your body at that moment, like trying to show appreciation and some aspect of things that it is doing for you.

- Yeah, and as you were talking about your experience with the strings, I feel like I've, like there's been quite a few clients that that's been for them their route of getting back to some connection with their body has been like some type of exercise routine.

For me, it was probably just laying on the floor and Zen yoga for other people to walk.

So just depends on what your preference is, right.

- Yeah, when I feel like it is also like trial and error.

I think sometimes people try something and they're like, that didn't help.

And then they're kind of like, well, yeah, I'm just done.

And I think that's always something I tell with clients, too, like a very anxiety or something super heightened.

Like you can't just use one coping skill and then it doesn't work.

And then you're like, well, OK, I'm just going to feel anxious forever.

Like it has to be, which is the hard part, like it has to be you have to continue to try to do things and introduce something or like, that didn't work.

Let me try this.

And eventually you'll find things that work.

Or yeah, you'll find out like, okay, strength training didn't actually help.

But yeah, like going to yoga really helped me connect with my body.

But until you try those things, you're not going to know.

And I think also not just assuming, just 'cause one thing didn't work up that you're like unable to kind of get back in your body 'cause that's just, there's gonna be something.

- Right, right.

And it's different for all of us.

So we just have to keep working through that.

So when we were kind of brainstorming about this episode, one of the things that you talked about as being a really important part of showing yourself self love is boundaries.

So I'd love to hear what your thoughts are about that.

- Yeah, so I feel like, I know it's something we talk about all the time now, but in terms of boundaries, I feel like that's a huge way of showing our self love because I think, you know, in society, we've kind of like as women been conditioned as like our purpose is to be like martyrs almost like we have to like make sure everyone else's needs are taken care of other people's work feelings are our responsibility and just like there's so much we take on ourselves and like doing things for ourselves.

I've kind of been conditioned to be to feel selfish in a sense and I think that's the hardest kind of mountain for people to get over is not associating that with being selfish.

You know I think it's like by doing that you to become the best version of yourself, you have to take care of yourself and then people are going to get more, you're going to show up better if you're the best version of yourself so it just like it kind of becomes a cycle.

I think it's just really hard to like get over the intrusive thoughts of this thing is selfish Like this thing I'm doing is taking away from others I'm not being a good X Y and Z because I'm doing this I think you know, we're gonna have those thoughts their condition But I think just acknowledging that they're just thoughts and they're just conditioned thoughts, you know Like by doing this thing Realistically am I being selfish.

No, like that's just the thoughts that are coming up in my head And I mean it's very much easier said than done, but I think that's a big part is like challenging the intrusive thoughts with what is What is the reality like me.

Going on a walk is not selfish, but that's what my mind is telling me So let me just acknowledge it and it can kind of exist But I don't need to attach to it or do anything different because of it But I think there's you know as far as boundaries we can have boundaries with people as well as ourselves, you know, so setting our own personal boundaries in terms of like how we talk to ourselves, how we treat ourselves and then also boundaries around other people in our space, in our time, you know, like just setting boundaries in terms of like what we have the capacity to give and as much as maybe we want to give more than that, we don't have it and so we have to be able to set boundaries with other people as a form of love to ourselves.

- Yeah, absolutely.

And it can be, I think, pretty scary for people to set boundaries.

Some places that we've talked about on the podcast often about boundaries is deciding you're not in the space to go to baby showers, turning friends down when they invite you to things, deciding who you do and don't feel comfortable sharing your story of your fertility journey with.

It can be scary to set those, what feel like kind of like walls of like, this is where I'm willing to go and this is where I'm not willing to go.

Because like you said, it's very easy to be concerned about what the other person is feeling versus really focus on how we're feeling through that process.

Yeah.

When I think a big thing is just us taking on responsibility for other people's feelings, like anytime we were feeling that sense of guilt, it's typically because we are, which I think is good.

It's good to be empathetic and put yourself in someone else's shoes.

That doesn't mean that they're feelings that are yours or your job.

So, you know, I do think sometimes we take it to the step of, okay, if I say I'm not going to go, they're going to be sad.

They're going to be upset.

I'm uncomfortable that they're upset.

So I'm just going to go and do it.

But ultimately like that's going to make me more upset by going.

So I think it's figuring out how to sit with the discomfort that someone else's feelings may be hurt and that isn't particularly your job to fix.

And I think as long as your intentions go to your respectful, you know, you're setting a very, you know, valid boundary.

If their feelings are hurt by that, you know, it is uncomfortable but it isn't ours to fix.

It's theirs to manage and figure out their feelings too which again, I think that's one and the most challenging things is like detaching our feelings from someone else's or taking on the responsibility of someone else's feelings as ours.

Yeah, it's so funny you were talking about just the tendency of us as women to take on that role of feeling like we need to be that protector.

I literally was just saying to my husband this past weekend like, why do I have to be so dang empathetic.

and but then it was about something totally unrelated.

It didn't matter at all, but like we watched a football game and there was someone who like had a play that really screwed up, like really, really screwed up.

I felt terrible for him.

I was like crying for him.

I'm like, oh my God, I can't imagine what he's going through with like that experience.

I'm like, why do I have to care so much about his emotions.

This was a game from a year ago.

Like it doesn't matter at all.

- He's hopefully moved past him now.

- But I'm over here crying for him, for his emotions.

I was like, why do I have to have this empathy.

And my husband was like, I don't know what you were talking about.

You were being dramatic.

- Yeah.

(laughs) - But it is this tendency to like, I don't know, just always be thinking about like how other people are feeling about things.

- Yeah, and yeah, it's like a double-edged sword 'cause it really, it is a great skill to be empathetic.

Like, I think that's great to be able to tap in, but then sometimes it kind of gets lost in like, what's ours, what's theirs, and then yeah, we're taking on someone else's on top of our own stuff.

And that's just a lot to carry.

So I feel like, and also I think we tend to, when we assume that we're going to be hurting someone's feelings or causing someone discomfort, like we tend to over explain, and that's not always necessary.

Like just being like, I'm so sorry.

Unfortunately, I'm unavailable.

Like, you can, again, if you're comfortable that person or you want to provide more details you can, but we don't have to.

You know, I think we tend to over explain and as an attempt to like mitigate some of the discomfort, maybe that they're feeling or that we're feeling and you don't have to do that.

Like setting a boundary can be pretty simplistic.

That's a good reminder.

Cause I feel like that's a common thing for people to do.

They can be, you know, that's something like you said earlier, like that's something that I will always be working on is, you know, feeling comfortable with setting, setting those boundaries.

Yeah, I don't, I think that's something like, I think you can get better at it, but I think it will always be somewhat of a challenge.

Again, when the empathy pieces involve because we're, we're human and we don't want other people to hurt or be in pain.

And so it's just something that I think will always exist to some extent.

I think it's having the like the verbiage already kind of ready in your mind when you're doing it.

Like going in knowing someone may be uncomfortable, someone's feelings may hurt, be hurt and knowing like I care for this person, my intent is not to hurt them.

I'm protecting myself if they have you know, if they're upset or have feelings like that is for them to manage.

And so I think just a reminder, it doesn't mean it's not going to hurt, doesn't mean you're not going to feel guilty, doesn't mean those things aren't going to exist.

I think it's just having like that wording already kind of ready in your mind just to like help challenge it and kind of work through it.

So it doesn't feel as heavy, but I think the idea of like completely ridding ourselves of guilt like that's just not going to happen.

And I think the reminder I always tell myself or tell clients that helps me feel comfortable with it is the opposite of like a boundary is like some version of some people pleasing, right.

creating your discomfort to avoid them being uncomfortable, which is kind of unfair that we're trying, like deciding to do that.

And a lot of times, like you kind of alluded to, it's not that effective.

I'm going to show up to that friend, to that person, whoever it is, better if I take care of my emotions first and then be a good person to them.

Well, and also I think like I talked to clients because a lot of times though like clients will share how They're just so irritated with the person and they're like, I don't know why I'm irritated with them or like yeah I don't know why I'm so annoyed or angry with them or resentful and typically when I hear irritated My first thought is like there's probably a boundary that needs to be said or that's being crossed And so like really listening to those feelings if you're feeling irritated with someone and maybe you don't usually like reflect on that.

What about this is irritating and if I set a boundary and they respect it like can we get back to a place where like I am fine with this person and we get along or you know I think the further from irritated is resentful and that's when you really know like this has been like a long term boundary that's not been set that maybe I need to go in and set.

So I think really tuning into to what feelings you're having with someone and then knowing and acknowledging maybe that's a place where I need to set a boundary if I'm like constantly annoyed with someone.

- Yes, yes, absolutely.

And I hear that so, so, so often under the topic of people in someone's life giving unsolicited advice about their fertility journey.

- Yeah.

- And they just kind of like internalize the annoyance about what the comment was, but they keep moving and they don't say anything.

And then next week it happens again and again, like maybe it's a coworker and it like keeps happening.

And like you said, it builds into this irritation that could build into resentment.

And it's like, if you would have just, we would just stop and like have the conversation of like, hey, like let's stop talking about it in that way.

- Yeah.

- It could totally change the relationship.

- Yeah, that's, I feel like it, it's almost like, I feel like trying to avoid hurting feelings almost sometimes makes things worse because now potentially like this person's irritated us to the point of resentment where like that's harder I think to overcome in a relationship than maybe one awkward conversation, but to kind of because we're, you know, taking on someone else's feelings and we're kind of avoiding it and avoiding like, now we've created more of a long-term problem for ourselves.

Like this is a harder challenge to overcome within a relationship or friendship or something.

And it's probably gonna be a harder conversation 'cause now this has been happening for weeks and months.

- Right.

- Yeah, instead of like, it happened once and then it's an uncomfortable conversation and then we set the boundary and that doesn't happen.

You know, so I feel like that's something I always talk to clients about is like the short term versus long term.

Like a lot of times we're looking for short term relief.

Like this is so uncomfortable.

I just don't wanna feel this anymore.

So I'm just gonna like move past this conversation.

but then long-term now I've created this.

I'm constantly irritated by this person.

- Yeah, and I feel like once you do get to that recent message, that's when we blow up.

And they say something that's not a big deal, really, like that one comment, but you're thinking of the last five months and you blow up and they're like, "Whoa, what just happened.

" - Yeah, well then in that point, it's almost like your reaction doesn't match in that moment what's happened.

And so then it's harder to be like, well, actually, for the past five months, I've been really annoyed with it.

Like, it's hard to, I feel like, at that point, explain the response.

So yeah, I feel like, unfortunately, that happens a lot.

Because yeah, we just-- we don't want to hurt people's feelings.

But then in turn, it kind of worsens where it's harder to address.

Absolutely.

So when we were talking about kind of this topic and self-love.

One of the things I really, really appreciated because this is something I try to remind often is like the goal here isn't to just be like the perfect person at self-love.

Like we're not going to be only ever having happy thoughts about ourselves and our body and the process and being able to like do this all the time.

And I think we've kind of alluded to that a little bit, but like just the importance of being realistic of how self love shows up.

Yeah, I feel like sometimes I feel like I probably envision this as well.

I think a lot of times we envision like self love or loving ourselves as like this place that we get, get to.

And then it's just like things are great there.

And I don't know if this is like a relief to hear or maybe not so much, but like, that's not a place I feel like genuinely get to because we're humans.

I think you can definitely get better and better at it.

But I think we can't avoid never having a negative feeling about ourselves or you know, I just think again that's unrealistic.

So I think yeah, it's really important to have realistic ideas of what self-love is and that just because you have a bad day or you have a bad thought doesn't mean you've regressed or everything you're working on is out the window.

It means you're human and I think it's more important of what do you do in those moments when you have a bad day or a negative thought, are you compassionate to yourselves or to yourself or do you latch on to it like, oh, here we are, we're back to hating ourselves again, like we deserve this, whatever that dialogue is, I feel like it can be really easy to kind of jump back into that.

So I think it's more of how are we handling those thoughts and feelings when they come up versus avoiding them or thinking they're never going to happen because that's just not, not very likely.

Absolutely.

And I feel like that just sets us up to be so disappointed if we're expecting that, right.

Like if we're hoping that we're going to get to that place where it is not happening at all, that it's bound to at some point, right.

Like about anything that's like you said, that's part of just being human.

Yeah, I think that like part of it is setting yourself up for success and so by having realistic expectations, you're going to be more successful if you have unrealistic expectations like you're going to fail and then you're not going to feel good about yourself.

Whereas if you have realistic expectations, you know, there's less of a chance that you're going to be disappointed with the outcome because you kind of anticipated and you prepared and you have an idea of how you want to handle those negative thoughts or if you say, I'm never gonna feel this way again about myself and then it happens, then you feel like a failure and you're disappointed.

Like, yeah, you aren't setting yourself up to be successful in that way.

So I think that is a huge thing.

It's just like realistic, tangible goals when you're working towards feeling better about yourself.

- Absolutely.

So as we kind of come to a close and thinking about, you know, there's people listening to this who are just starting, trying to conceive and they're just anxious about the process.

There's people who are well down the road of infertility, have gone through pregnancy loss.

Is there anything that you feel like would be like one last piece of advice or thought or message you would love to leave them with.

It can be about self love, it can be about anything.

- Yeah.

- Yeah, just as we close out.

- I think this is like, I mean, this is not anything special or things that help, You know, anything that someone probably hasn't heard, but I feel like just the idea of, if you're struggling with self-compassion or self-love, like trying to visualize someone else you really care for, so whether it's like a sister, mom, close friend, just someone that you, like sitting with, you can really like envision how much you love and care for this person, and then imagine them saying the things saying to yourself, just imagine them feeling the ways you feel about yourself.

Probably how gut-wrenching that would be and how do we redirect that towards ourselves because there's no way we would say have the things we say to ourselves or have the expectations we have for ourselves or yeah, that wouldn't happen if someone we loved were telling us or we knew they were living that way.

We wouldn't be like, "Yeah, that's sounds about right.

should feel that way or you do deserve that.

We would never.

So I think that's as simple as it is.

I feel like that's a good stepping stone if you're really struggling to redirect self-compassion towards yourself is like envision someone you love so much and them saying those things.

How much that would hurt.

What would you say to them and like redirecting that to yourself and trying to make that a practice.

As much as you can't anytime you of a negative thought or feeling towards yourself, really sit with that practice and kind of try to redirect.

And then the hope is eventually it becomes kind of second nature, or you don't even have to envision the other person, it's just easy to access self-compassion towards yourself.

- Yeah, I think that's a great reminder.

I can think of clients that have had, you know, used their sister, their mom.

I had one client that her person that she thought of like that was her golden retriever.

- Yeah, imagine being mean to your dog.

- She was like, I would never, I would never, right.

And she would always, we would talk about like, how spun out and spirally she would get, like when she would be getting a lot of anxious thoughts, right.

And how she would be trying to like run away from them.

And she's like, if my dog was anxious, I would just sit there with him and like, let him be anxious.

I'm like, yes, exactly.

Like we get to do that for you.

- Yeah, that's perfect.

So that's a great reminder.

I like that one.

Well, I really, really appreciate you coming on.

I think that sometimes it's nice to hear from other than myself of just ideas of how to weave these things into life and reminders to think about while we're doing it.

So I really appreciate that.

- Yeah, thank you so much for having me on.

- Yeah, so for those listening, I thank you for being on this week and we will talk to you next week and have a great day.

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